From: Robert Rothenberg Date: 16:11 on 20 Apr 2007 Subject: Ubuntu Feisty hate I was a clone and decided to upgrade Ubuntu from Egregious Eft to Festering Fawn. Sh'loads of hate.... Like what that the upgrade manager does when it sees that I've changed a default configuration file and wants to know if it should overwrite, etc... it never makes a backup. The most obvious f***ing thing, it never makes a backup. Oh, and they removed Attaxx. My favourite game. I suck at it, but it's still my favourite. They didn't bother leaving it there, unsupported. No, since it was removed from that version of Ubuntu, they removed it from my computer. I also added menu entries for applications that never showed up in the menu, or in the categories I wanted. (All this involved was adding .desktop files.) All of those minor tweaks lost, without warning. (Or maybe there was a warning buried deep somewhere.) Why? What harm was there to be done? And all sorts of useless fonts I removed were re-installed. So I will be always be able to view documents in exotic languages that I cannot read and have no intention of reading. Does it *really* need to download and reinstall an upgrade to utilities like gzip? All that time to download lots of files that basically had a different version number? Grrr. Rob
From: Peter da Silva Date: 21:09 on 20 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: Ubuntu Feisty hate Sounds like they've almost completed turning Linux into Windows.
From: Jonathan Stowe Date: 21:53 on 20 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: Ubuntu Feisty hate On Fri, 2007-04-20 at 16:11 +0100, Robert Rothenberg wrote: > I was a clone and decided to upgrade Ubuntu from Egregious Eft to Festering > Fawn. Sh'loads of hate.... And there I was thinking that the bloody stupid names were all that there was to hate about it. /j\
From: Andy Armstrong Date: 21:56 on 20 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: Ubuntu Feisty hate On 20 Apr 2007, at 21:53, Jonathan Stowe wrote: > And there I was thinking that the bloody stupid names were all that > there was to hate about it. I'm still a fanboy. I like the names and I've got a while to wait before the upgrade doodab pisses me off: http://flickr.com/photos/andyarmstrong/466211460/ :)
From: Adam Atlas Date: 04:21 on 21 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: Ubuntu Feisty hate On 20 Apr 2007, at 16.56, Andy Armstrong wrote: > I'm still a fanboy. I like the names and I've got a while to wait > before the upgrade doodab pisses me off: > > http://flickr.com/photos/andyarmstrong/466211460/ The trick, of course, is to upgrade the day BEFORE it's released. That way the servers aren't flooded yet. Anyway... I don't know, my Feisty upgrades were pretty seamless. (Servers, though. So I didn't really need to worry about inadvertently uninstalling any games.) Of course there's always something to hate (apt provides plenty), but at least out of the Linux distros I've tried, Ubuntu makes me want to stab people the least.
From: Robert Rothenberg Date: 23:55 on 26 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: Ubuntu Feisty hate On 21/04/07 04:21 Adam Atlas wrote: > The trick, of course, is to upgrade the day BEFORE it's released. That > way the servers aren't flooded yet. No. I think it's best to wait until about a month after the release. Server traffic is returned to normal, and there'll be updates that fixed problems or workarounds posted to the forums for those who upgraded early.
From: David Cantrell Date: 22:42 on 21 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: Ubuntu Feisty hate Jonathan Stowe wrote: > On Fri, 2007-04-20 at 16:11 +0100, Robert Rothenberg wrote: >> I was a clone and decided to upgrade Ubuntu from Egregious Eft to Festering >> Fawn. Sh'loads of hate.... > And there I was thinking that the bloody stupid names were all that > there was to hate about it. The stupid name hate, of course, also applies to Debian. Its fans always talk about "Sarge" and "Woody" and "Cockgobbler", desperately trying to hide those nasty version numbers from the world.
From: jrodman Date: 00:57 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: Ubuntu Feisty hate On Sat, Apr 21, 2007 at 10:42:15PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: > Jonathan Stowe wrote: > >On Fri, 2007-04-20 at 16:11 +0100, Robert Rothenberg wrote: > >>I was a clone and decided to upgrade Ubuntu from Egregious Eft to > >>Festering > >>Fawn. Sh'loads of hate.... > >And there I was thinking that the bloody stupid names were all that > >there was to hate about it. > > The stupid name hate, of course, also applies to Debian. Its fans > always talk about "Sarge" and "Woody" and "Cockgobbler", desperately > trying to hide those nasty version numbers from the world. This is partly because as developers they think about the versions that are under development, instead of the versions which have shipped. I don't think they number them until kinda late in the cycle (maybe I'm wrong.) It's still awful of course. I, along with 99.99% of users don't really care about "Etch". People running production servers, as you say, are going to want to know version numbers, and track (or not) a given version. People running desktops are going to want to track a given level of newness/unpleasantness. The majority of individual users who run the crap are going to run "Stable" "Testing" or "unstable" depending upon their levels of concern about obselescence and bugs. Does a desktop user want to run the same release of Debian ... FOREVER? If you read the Debian docs, they apparently think you do. -josh
From: Robert Rothenberg Date: 15:08 on 24 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: Ubuntu Feisty hate On 22/04/07 00:57 jrodman@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote: > People running desktops are going to want to track a given level of > newness/unpleasantness. ... No they don't. They want something that's pleasant to use. By "pleasant" I mean something that's easy to use, easy on the eye, and does what you expect it to. Or as the Mac fanboys say, "It just works". > Does a desktop user want to run the same release of Debian ... FOREVER? When the desktop user is somebody like my aunt, and uncle, and cousins, and various other friends and relatives for are not computer techies, YES. Emphatically YES. The computer mostly works and does what they need, so they see no reason to upgrade. Their ancient computers running Windows 95 or 98 work fine, a little slow, but good enough for their needs. They see no reason to change, since that involves getting new hardware or software (which might cost money, and certainly time), learning new software (more time), and dealing with inevitable pain in the a** that upgrades cause in broken systems. (They see the misery that their techie friends go through when upgrading, and they want as little of it as possible.) Chances are when they "upgrade", they'll get a "new" computer after a few years and transfer over the files they care about (mostly e-mails, photos, and word documents). Rob
From: Dave Hodgkinson Date: 15:18 on 24 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: Ubuntu Feisty hate On 24 Apr 2007, at 15:08, Robert Rothenberg wrote: > > Chances are when they "upgrade", they'll get a "new" computer after > a few > years and transfer over the files they care about (mostly e-mails, > photos, > and word documents). FWIW, even that's beginning to change. People have been through enough machine changes over the last few years that now in their minds they distinguish between the apps and the data, that where possible the data is held externally on a NAS or USB drive and the machine is viewed as an appliance. The smart people at least.
From: Nik Clayton Date: 11:57 on 22 Apr 2007 Subject: Re: Ubuntu Feisty hate David Cantrell wrote: > Jonathan Stowe wrote: >> On Fri, 2007-04-20 at 16:11 +0100, Robert Rothenberg wrote: >>> I was a clone and decided to upgrade Ubuntu from Egregious Eft to >>> Festering >>> Fawn. Sh'loads of hate.... >> And there I was thinking that the bloody stupid names were all that >> there was to hate about it. > > The stupid name hate, of course, also applies to Debian. Its fans > always talk about "Sarge" and "Woody" and "Cockgobbler", desperately > trying to hide those nasty version numbers from the world. Lets not forget the provenance of the name "Debian" itself. Would you use an operating system with a name that looks like it should be emblazoned on transparent plastic in the windscreen of a Ford Capri? N
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